[ale] Greg's using "those guys" ; -) (was: could somebody moderate this?)

[Barry Hawkins]

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On Oct 7, 2004, at 3:53 PM, Bjorn Dittmer-Roche wrote:

> On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Barry Hawkins wrote:
>
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>> On Oct 7, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Preston Boyington wrote:
>>
>>> Greg wrote:
>>>> * Needs to be easily updatable.  CVSup is ok.  I am fine with
>>>> a command line.
>>> err, apt-get?  aptitude?
>>
>> I have found apt-get and aptitude quite good, and better at 
>> identifying dependency issues than CVSup, but that's just my personal 
>> opinion from experience.
>
> I agree, but I think this has mostly to do with Debian's camparatively 
> large and active user base rather than the apt system vs ports. One 
> Debian developer I know keeps insisting that debian is superior 
> because of it's strict policy about software and updates. He may be 
> right and he knows better than I do, but my impression is that it has 
> more to do with the user base. (before RH had apt, he used to insist 
> that apt made debian superior. now it's the policy. whatever.)
This is quite possibly true, although the FreeBSD ports collection has 
a pretty massive user base as well.

> Whatever the reason, the upshot is that you can pretty much always 
> count on the Debian stuff to work -- expecially in stable, but also in 
> testing -- whereas I have definately found things not working on 
> FreeBSD after an update, and that can be a big pain.
Same here.

>>>> FreeBSD has java,jboss, netbeans, and smarty in it's package
>>>> system.  No one else has any of them (linux only has java).  They 
>>>> have
>>>> embraced java as well as kept things relatively light.  Is used by 
>>>> many large
>>>> installations.  I am well versed in OpenBSD so it's familiar and
>>>> easily updateable (but it puts a strain on the system during make
>>>> (buildworld/installworld/buildkernel/installkernel) as
>>>> opposed to Debians binary download).  FreeBSD will also allow me to 
>>>> use packages
>>>> or ports (more configurable).  Just hope it recognizes the 
>>>> shift-fn-keypad
>>>> combo (IT DOES !!! DANG !! SWEET!!) so I can manipulate screen 
>>>> resolutions
>>>> on the box.
>> A couple of caveats on FreeBSD's java support.  First, there is no 
>> native jdk/jre.  You have to use Linux JDKs with Linux binary 
>> compatibility enabled. Second, you can compile your own native JDK 
>> using the java/jdk14 port in FreeBSD, but be aware that it is a 
>> journey involving the initial install of the Sun Linux JDK to 
>> bootstrap the build, the download of several of the Sun SCSL-licensed 
>> source package (you have to download these manually, due to licensing 
>> technicalities; the package cannot do it automatically), the download 
>> of the necessary patchset from the guy at eyesbeyond.com who 
>> maintains it on his own, and then the install.  At the end of all 
>> that effort, you find that the licensing implies stuff so shaky that 
>> you expect to get an email from Scott McNealy with an MP3 of the 
>> C.O.P.S. soundtrack attached to it - appropriately licensed, of 
>> course.
>>
>> If Java support is a big issue for you, I would urge you to consider 
>> a full-fledged Debian install.
>
> I did not find the java install to be so difficult. Going into the 
> appropriate folder in the ports collection and typing "make install" 
> walks you through what you need to do. The only thing I recall 
> downloading manually was the SCSL-licensed source package.
I would not say that building a native 1.4 JDK is difficult at all.  
The maintainers of that port do a great job, and they are bound to the 
SCSL restrictions like anyone else.  I would say that it's less 
streamlined than, say, installing the Linux Sun JDK using Linux binary 
compatibility on FreeBSD.

> I think it took me longer to figure out what to put in my apt source 
> list on debian (debian does not include java for political reasons) 
> than to get Java working on FreeBSD.
I can't speak to that yet.  On my Debian PowerPC installs I have simply 
downloaded the IBM PPC 32 1.4 JDK and unzipped it, set JAVA_HOME and 
added java/bin to PATH.  That was pretty straightforward.

> I think both Debian and FreeBSD are great choices for the laptop. Feel 
> free to ask on this list if you need help installing Java on either 
> system.
Thanks, I may do that.
> 	bjorn
>
> -------------------
> Bjorn Dittmer-Roche
> XO Audio LLC
>
> http://www.xowave.com
> http://www.xoaudio.com
Regards

Barry C. Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com


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