[ale] [WAY OT]Reverse Engineering MS Visual Basic Applications

[Jason Day]

On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 09:26:07AM -0500, ChangingLINKS.com wrote:
> I will probably get flamed for this, but I DON'T think most programmers ARE 
> that creative - at least not the ones that get paid to code. 

I humbly submit that you have this opinion because you are not a
programmer.  I have formal training in both engineering and computer
science, and I've seen this bias many times.  One of my engineering
professors even remarked in class once that "anybody can write a
program".  Most people just assume that software engineering is easy,
and that there is no creativity involved.

> An entreprenuer comes along with:
> 	1. The dream or idea (the creativity)
> 	2. The capital to finance the project and pay people for their effort 
> 	3. The will to assume ALL of the risk (regarding a return on investment).
> The entreprenuer dictates what the program should do and all of the "rules."

If it were that easy, then all software would be written by other
software.  If all you had to do to write a program is define the
"rules", and there were no creative element, then another program would
be able to churn out the desired program.  That is, after all, what
computers do: they process input, according to some rules, and give a
result.

> Contrarily a programmer did not originate the idea, does not have any risk, 
> and probably would not code the project - IF he didn't get paid upfront.

I assume you're talking about contract programmers, and not programmers
who are employees, or founders, or entrepeneurs.  I have, in fact,
worked at a startup, where I had creative input into the design of the
final product.  The founder of the company was also a programmer and the
chief architect.  I also assumed considerable risk, much to my
misfortune when the company went under.  I most certainly was not paid
up front.

> There is very little difference between a programmer and someone who makes 
> hamburgers at McDonalds - or (if you want to get more complex) builds 
> motherboards at Solectron.

You certainly have a knack for pissing people off, Drew.  I don't know
what kind of experiences you've had with programmers that you have such
a preconceived notion.  While there are certainly programmers who do
nothing but grunt work, there are plenty of programmers who do more than
simply sit in a corner and bang out programs which simply process some
input according to some "rules" that were given to them by someone else.
For simply one of many counter examples, try reading about Jamie
Zawinski's experiences at Netscape.
http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nscpdorm.html is a good place to start.

> 
> How about this case: 
> A project is very complex. It is have shuttled it from programmer to 
> programmer and some of the code is written by the entreprenuer. (What makes 
> it tough is that the entreprenuer can't let any one programmer understand the 
> entire idea). The entreprenuer designed the each of the functions with psuedo 
> code and the layout of the program.
> 
> 					Who has ownership?

Unless it is explicitly stated otherwise in a contract signed by the
entrepeneur and the programmer, or unless the programmer qualifies as a
work-for-hire, then whoever wrote the code has the copyright.

> Do we try to look at the source code and figure out how many lines each 
> programmer wrote? What about the lines that one programmer wrote and another 
> modified? What if the entreprenuer did the debugging and actually got the the 
> program to work "right?" At what point does the programmer's contribution get 
> deminished enough until they have no ownership? What if the program that is 
> being written is bought by someone for $500 million - how much cash does each 
> programmer get? What about the programmer that I hired to fix 2 bugs? 

If you want to retain copyright, then you have to write your contranct
to explicitly spell this out.  This is nothing new.

> I believe that "by default" the intellectual property rights should go to the 
> entreprenuer  and not the programmer.

I believe that "by default" the "intellectual property rights" should go
to whoever wrote it.  If the entrepeneur truly does all the creative
work, and defines all the rules, then there is no need to hire a
programmer.

> Wishing you Happiness, Joy and Laughter,

Whatever.
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9