[ale] New website for H1B [Slightly OT]

[Dan Man]

Hehe, this should be an Olympic sport.... This is fun.... ; )

-----Original Message-----
From: ChangingLINKS.com [mailto:x3 at ChangingLINKS.com] 
To: ale at ale.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:59 PM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: Re: [ale] New website for H1B [Slightly OT]

<snip>

> Yes. I had at least one particular script re-written 4-6 times. Why? >
Because 
> my demands changed. Code is really a bunch of rules, and I changed the
> rules 
> over time (though fundamentally the code is the same). The code
evolved.

Thanks for the intro to programming.

> The code concerned has already been posted on this list. Moreover
George 
> Carless ("offshore") gave the most significant contribution to the
code AND 
>offered to help more! Moreover, he DID help more - and his simple >
suggestion 
> saved me at least $100 and a lot of stress from the testing I was
doing. 

> I was so impressed that I posted a big thank you, and George threw in
a 
> disclaimer to my claim - how humble! Just on that short experience, I
> would 
>glady commission him on a project, or refer him to someone else. 

> The man has class and if you read (and understand) his posts, he has
LOTS > of 
> emotional control and intelligence. He is cool headed when ignorant
flames 
> float about him. 

I'm very impressed with George's ability. (Seriously)

> He has inspired me to be less troll-like.

Um, Ok... In what way?

>> Put up, or well, you know the rest....
> First of all, the burden of proof (that there is code that *should*
cost 3 
> times more sits squarely on the shoulders of the man who claimed to be
a 
> "steak" programmer worthy of higher pay. That being said . . .

No claims here...

> I *can* post code that I am very impressed with. 

Cool, go for it...

> It logs into Yahoo gets the symbols and imports the stock prices into
my > mySQL 
> database in PHP. The script cost less than $70, was DONE within 1 day,
is 
> fully commented, was coded in Russia, and most importantly, works >
perfectly. 
> At $10 an hour, it would probably be considered "meatloaf code."

Good for you. I've got an ongoing project with "OCR" software written in
"Russia" that I have spent 9+ months trying to get a bug fixed. Cost?
$30,000+ (It's the first hit on Google if you look). I'm glad you had a
good experience with your stock ticker. Unfortunately for me on a bigger
project (read more expensive) I did not have the same luck.

> (note: I cannot post it right now because it is on a partition that is
> slated 
> for data recovery, but the code exists and I would challenge you (Dan)
to 
> write it so much better that I make more money with the code).

> My question is: 
> WHY would I want to pay $200 for code that does the same thing?

> How can Dan Mount, or Grant make it any better than "working" and very
fast? 

I have no want, or need to make you money unless I make money. How about
this fictitious scenario, I'll write the code for free. If it works
better and makes you money, you give me 1% of your gross income. I don't
know your income, but this still sounds fair. You get what you want,
make more money and I get a little something to make sure the ferrets
keep getting fed. I'll even rewrite it up to 6-7 times as your
requirements change. You get something for free and I get a little piece
of something that wouldn't have increased without my code.


> I have learned that "knowledge and code are cheap." 
> _I_ am not good at admining a Linux box, or programming. I can do both
a 
> little. I will never be a pro programmer or pro Linux admin. I know
that I 
> would not be competitive, because I don't enjoy the work. I am
fast-paced 
> task oriented (not very detail oriented) - so I fit better as a
manager > than 
> an employee. I can create useful programs and find clients to pay for
the 
> programs to be developed. 

We've already established your 'management potential'. 

> I am primarily an entreprenuer who knows that it is not important to
know > how 
> to do a task. It is more important to be able to find (and afford)
someone 
> that does.

Good for you, I wish you well. Just don't come in here and try to tell
people that they should be working for $10/hr for the work that they do.

"(Dan)" - The guy that could make it better...
If he wanted to...
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