[ale] recovering an ext3 drive

[Geoffrey]

ChangingLINKS.com wrote:
> I have a hard time understanding the opinion you have. I just don't get it. 
> Why not have the default a recycle bin to protect people from their mistakes?
> What are the costs?

Because it is a waste of resources and the back assward way of 
addressing the problem.  Why don't they provide a parachute to every 
airline passenger?  We all know planes fall out of the sky every now and 
then, yet we all still fly.

> 
> You imply that making a mistake is "stupidity" and that there is some great 
> benefit for people suffering or being punished for accidents? Where does that 
> come from? (I hear some doctor in the background claiming your parents did 
> this to you).

There is a gain in experiences such as this.  We all learn from our 
mistakes, or should.

> 
> Darwin's rules should be given a bigger priority than they currently do. 
> Why?

Reference above.

> 
> We don't need to be protected from ourselves. 
> Why not?

I'm the kind of person that thinks it's quite stupid to sit at a red 
traffic light when there are no cars in sight on the road with the green 
light.  I'm intelligent enough to make a proper decision and cross the 
road safely.  Still, if I do, and there's a policeman behind me, I'll 
get a ticket.

> 
> We sure don't need to be protected from our own stupidity.
> Why not?

If we never make mistakes, we'll never learn from them.  Just like the 
traffic signal example, there are things I'm capable of doing on my own. 
  I don't need help.  Another stupid traffic light example.  You're 
sitting in the left turn lane with a red light.  The traffic going 
straight in your direction has a green light.  There are no vehicles in 
sight in the on coming lanes, yet, I must sit at the light until it 
turns green.  How stupid is that?  What a waste of my time.

> 
> What is benefit of "delete" over "hide"?

You don't waste the resources.  Besides, if you want to hide a file, 
move it to a directory you don't look at.  Remove means remove.  Delete 
means delete.  Archive means archive.  If you want access to the file at 
a later date, choose archive.

> (I am thinking that if one really NEEDS something to be "gone" now they must 
> "delete" it and THEN write random information over the disk space several 
> times ANYWAY).

This is true, and there are tools that do this as well.

> 
> I am glad that the way things are and the way things are going are contrary to 
> your position. 
> 
> James, you, Geoffrey and I all have something in common:
> 
>                         We all deleted data that we wanted back.
> 
> It seems like I am the only one who admits that there should be a way to get 
> the data back as easily as recovering a recycle bin. (I do believe that there 
> should be a "shred" that deletes sensitive data forever - with several 
> warnings that the data will be over-written and unrecoverable even to
> government).

As I noted earlier, there are Linux gui tools that provide the same 
functionality as the 'recyle bin' in Windows.  I have always thought the 
'recycle bin' was a stupid idea.  If I delete a file, I want it removed, 
not placed somewhere else in my way.

There are secure removal tools as you've indicated available as well.

> 
> Re-reading your post over and over has left me with the conclusion that you 
> think we are all "stupid" and the data should have been unrecoverable in all 
> cases. 

No, on the contrary, I think most people are not stupid.  I know you're 
actually responding to James post, but we (James and I) seem to be of 
like mind on this subject.

I think the average person is smart enough to not go around deleting 
files they need on a regular basis.  Unfortunately, I believe that the 
average computer user has not been properly trained to protect there 
data via backup.  This, I fault the great and almighty Microsoft.  They 
have failed the user in so many ways, this is just another.  Backing up 
files is and afterthought with Microsoft as is security.  This is 
probably the reason that you and I have such different opinions on this 
subject.  I cut my teeth on computers in a data center.  Big blue and 
UNIX boxes.  Everything was backed up.  I've been backing stuff up for a 
very long time.  I couldn't believe the lack of tools for these purposes 
in the Windows world.  Have you ever tried to backup a Windows 95 
partition using their backup tool to anything but a tape? It won't 
permit you to backup to a share drive or other networked facility.

> 
> Drew
> 
> PS: The questions above are *not* rhetorical.

Neither are my answsers. :)

-- 
Until later: Geoffrey		esoteric at 3times25.net

The latest, most widespread virus?  Microsoft end user agreement.
Think about it...

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