[ale] recovering an ext3 drive

[Geoffrey]

Understand that I see a difference in philosophy here, thus we will 
never agree on this issue.  That said, we should agree to disagree and 
move on, but I'll share my last few insights just the same.

ChangingLINKS.com wrote:
> 1. Your position is that "e2undel -d /dev/hda -s path -a -t" and that short 
> list of directions that you gave is "easy" to understand and use?

yes.  What's difficult about the following:

enter user name:
select the deletion interval (less than 12 hours/48 hours/1 week...)

You get a table that has headers defining the inode column, the file 
name column and various others.

You then enter the inode number.  What is difficult about reading a table?

> 
> My position is that e2undel is NOT easy to use for most computer users. 
> Moreover, the program should be easy to use for someone with your mastery - 
> regardless of how many files are being undeleted, or their location LIKE the 
> competition's software.

Mine was a unique situation where I was recovering over 9000 files.  As 
I have no experience with the other OS's recovery software, how would it 
identify 9000 files?  My problems had nothing to do with the tool as it 
was designed, but with the need to recover a large number of files.

You had to write a short list to communicate to me
> "kindof" what that command is saying - and I still can't understand it 
> without futher study. I do understand clicking icons (except when it comes to 
> emacs - will someone please help me understand that program so I don't feel 
> soooo incompetent) :). 
> It sounds like you would also say "lynx" is as easy to use as "galeon."

No, I would not.

> 
> 2. You assert that it is the user's (or hardware's) fault that the data was 
> deleted?

Yes.  Who entered the command to remove the file(s)?

> 
> My position is that opinion is irrelevant. Software that's PURPOSE is to 
> undelete should be easy to use by most computer users and work well.

All software should be easy to use, but is not.  I'm glad there are 
tools out there to permit me to recover files.

> 
> "Back up the data correctly and you will never have to use this confusing 
> software (with four attributes and no GUI) that a software *programmer* can't 
> easily use without any help."

Excuse me?  I would again request you to identify windows based software 
that would permit you to recover over 9000 files.  You may well be able 
to, but most Windows software I've seen is so overly verbose, you'll be 
clicking YES and OK till the wee hours or later.  I'm sure you want to 
select each file from the gui, then click the recover button on the 
window that pops up, and then click the YES button for the 'ARE YOU 
SURE' button that pops up.

I still don't understand what is so difficult about entering the user's 
id, and the time frame in which the file was removed.  If you don't know 
the timeframe you can select all deleted files.  Yes, the average person 
doesn't know what an inode is, but why should then need to when the 
software prompts you to enter the inode number from the table and the 
table has the form:


INODE  |  FILENAME
12345  |  stupid_file_I_just_removed

What' is hard about that????


Expecting ease with recovering files for users is like expecting my wife 
to change the oil in the car.  It's not something everyone needs to do. 
  If you screw up and delete a file without a backup, you deserve what 
you get because you didn't follow the rules.  Do you stop at red traffic 
lights?

> 
> I believe the day will come where undeleting data on Linux partitions will be 
> as easy as it is in FAT32/FAT16 Windows. The position of "let the user suffer 
> for their mistake of having to use the software" will (and should be) 
> eliminated.

You can not save the user from everything.  As time goes on, file 
systems get more and more complex.  This issue makes recovery more and 
more complex.  Time and again, people are told to back up critical 
information.

> 
> Desktop computers should be user friendly and somewhat forgiving.
> The trend is that Linux, got a GUI and is becoming more user friendly.

Agreed.  But you're still comparing apples to oranges. If you delete a 
file from any one of the gui tools, it goes to some type of 'recycle 
bin' where it may be recovered at a later time.

What is it that makes deleting a file on a computer so different from 
throwing a check in the garbage?  Does your sanitation company provide 
you a service to relocate that check?

> 
> Drew
> 
> P.S. I understand that you and other Linux users may never accept my position 
> or the trend of user friendliness when it comes to data recovery. I write to 
> clarify - not to argue against Linux or support Windows, and I have nothing 
> further to add.

My main point is, you got burned because you went to the command line 
and accidently removed a file.  I've done it as well.  I don't blame the 
system, it was my fault.  If you can't deal with the consquences of 
working at the command line, then you shouldn't be there.

It's an opinion okay.  I work at the command line, as root, a lot. 
Sure, I can trash stuff, and done so, but I don't blame the tool, I 
accept the responsibility for my actions.

Now you and I need to hook up so I can buy you a beer....

-- 
Until later: Geoffrey		esoteric at 3times25.net

The latest, most widespread virus?  Microsoft end user agreement.
Think about it...

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale