Converting "Dozies" (was Re: [ale] OT: winxp upgrade...)

[Jeff Hubbs]

I bought a boxed SuSe once but for the most part I download whatever
distro I care to mess with that's available for free download.  I
appreciate that there are several distros that I can pick from, with
varying degrees of "corporateness" to it - and I have no problem at all
with the concept of buying boxed distros in exchange for some degree of
solid tech support and comprehensible docs.  But I also want to be able
to Linux up 20 machines at no additional cost and I want to be able to
formulate my own distro or modify an existing one if I care to do that. 
I am not moved to jump out and throw money at Mandrake in response to
their recent pleas if only because I don't know how they got in trouble
and I'm not in a position to know.  I have seen enough behind-the-scenes
shenanigans in IT in my mind to know that there are some dunderheads
making critical business decisions.  I worked for a place that threw A
MILLION DOLLARS into a software company whose only product was a Web
content management system that ran AS A USER APP on a WinNT console, and
it was based on an Access-like desktop DBMS that NEARLY NO ONE USED
ANYMORE.  It only added to the ridiculousness that there were plenty of
alternative solutions available, both free and non-free (e.g., Zope,
ColdFusion) and relatively cross-platform.  

I would be more inclined to throw money at people who aren't starry-eyed
with "vertical marketing opportunities, "co-branding strategies," and
"strategic partnerships" but rather live relatively normal lives but
produce good work.  I've seen waaaaay too much "Enron-think" in the last
four years and if I knew as a fact that Mandrake's upper/mid management
was NOT like that, I'd consider it.

- Jeff

On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 12:29, Greg wrote:
> Dear gentle Linux user;
> 
> 	Well, if you have never paid for a distro, then how do you expect to
> continue to download for free in the future ???  As Mandrake is getting
> ready to go down the drain I expect the others to follow in some capacity
> (i.e. no free eternal downloads) at some time in the future. Yes, I know
> that the GPL says you have to make the source available, but it is ... on
> the disks when you buy a distro.  There is no requirement to make it
> available on to the world on a ftp server.  I mean, it takes money for the
> boxes, the Sys Admins, the electricity & facilities, the bandwidth, and the
> development of Linux.  I don't care about all that BS from Stallman, it
> takes money to ride the train, and the lease holders/tax
> collectors/utilities won't accept "goodwill".  Obviously Mr. Stallman never
> had any trouble paying bills or took an economics course.
> 
> 	Look at Smoothwall's history.  They started out dependant on "good will"
> and found out it takes money to do a project.  Goodbye warm & fuzzy inc and
> hello corporate world. I would suggest that if you use Linux, you should
> support those who "give" you stuff - and I mean "give" as in the sense "THEY
> foot the bill and YOU use for free".
> 
> 	If you use Linux, you should support it.  It's like the lessons in that
> parable about the common green or some such title, where if everyone just
> takes and takes then it is all used up.  I would, gentle Linux user, suggest
> you start to buy distros and help out at installfests.  I can understand
> some not buying distros, but if you can afford 2 pizzas, you can afford a
> distro.
> 
> 	As for the rest of the stuff ... well .... what goes around comes around
> and if they want to put up with MS crap, then so be it, but just don't waste
> my time crying about it to me.   I am resigned to living in a society of
> mindless drone-lemmings and so don't worry anymore about what I cannot
> change.
> 
> Greg Canter
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-admin at ale.org [mailto:ale-admin at ale.org]On Behalf Of David S.
> > Jackson
> > Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 12:02 PM
> > To: ale at ale.org
> > Subject: Converting "Dozies" (was Re: [ale] OT: winxp upgrade...)
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 08:36:03AM -0500 James P. Kinney III
> > <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> wrote:
> > > <begin soapbox rant mode>
> > >
> > > Wipe the drive, repartition, slap on a RedHat 8 (no distro wars, please)
> > > for him and show how easy it is to do things and hit the Internet. Show
> > > him how much he can get for the money and time investment. Show _your_
> > > Linux box uptime report. Preach to him about subversive nature of the
> > > controls and "bug fixes" that Microsoft uses.
> >
> > I guess "converting" or "preaching" to others is pretty hard for me to
> > do.  But perhaps that has more to do with my personal emotional baggage
> > than with reality.  Rationally, friends shouldn't let friends drive
> > drunk.  So, perhaps friends also shouldn't allow friends to compute
> > stupidly.
> >
> > However, none of us has the power to make up another's mind for him.
> > Unless it's by force or by trickery.  So I haven't pushed too hard when
> > people (friends) appear to ignorantly follow the M$ herd of lemmings
> > over the cliff.  I guess it comes down to, "How stupid do I really
> > believe my friends are, and how much of their delusion is actually due
> > to force and trickery?"
> >
> > If they refuse to listen to rational arguments for forsaking M$, then I
> > can do nothing (ethically speaking).  But if they are innocent captives
> > then I should try my hardest to explain reasonably and dispassionately
> > why they are on a collision course by continuing to use M$ crap.
> >
> > So, I'm thinking this whole discussion comes down to:
> >
> > 1. How do you identify whether your friends are either genuine victimes
> > or are too stupid or indifferent to care what they use?
> >
> > 2. How best do you advocate Linux without seeming like a zealot?  (Is it
> > too zealous to install only *nix and not dual boot their machine?)
> >
> > > Convert that person and show them the ALE list.
> >
> > This is truly an enormous "selling" point.
> >
> > > Tell them to save their money by NOT giving it to Bill.  Have him give
> > > it to you instead to setup and teach him how to use the new found
> > > freedom of an computer system that puts the box owner IN CHARGE
> > > instead of the corporate interests in Redmond.
> >
> > This is a little tougher one, I think.  I mean, I've used the "hood
> > welded shut" argument time and again, and people look at me with glazed
> > eyes.  I think it's because they don't work on their cars either, so
> > they have no concept of how bad the M$ situation truly is.   I keep
> > expecting them to call me Mulder and look around for The Smoking Man.
> >
> > > Show him how wonderful it is to be able not have to have an extra $70 a
> > > year just to keep from getting email viruses. Show him the elegant
> > > simplicity and excellent functionality of OpenOffice.org installed WITH
> > > the operating system, not a separate purchase and installation headache.
> >
> > I switched over to Linux in about early 1995. Since then I've paid once
> > for 98se for my wife/daughter's machine as a dual boot.  That's the last
> > "purchase" I ever made for any OS.  Meanwhile I've upgraded all my
> > machines at no cost and burned new CDs of any distro I have wanted for
> > all these years.  All with the reliability and sensibility that is *nix.
> > It's hard to get people to even conceive of what I'm talking about here
> > if they've never experienced it.
> >
> > I guess all one can do is find the *one* reason that *will convince
> > them* to try 'nix out.  For me it was that I hate to be made an ass of
> > by M$.  I was tired of being Microsoft's bitch.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > --
> > David S. Jackson                        dsj at dsj.net
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > When I woke up this morning, my girlfriend asked if I
> > had slept well.  I said, "No, I made a few mistakes."
> > 		-- Steven Wright
> >
> 
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> Ale at ale.org
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