[ale] kimset

[cfowler]

For one thing your getting my motives all wrong.  I'm not wanting to go
around and find non-public networks an play on them.  I'll find those
that are public like at Starbucks.  But network insecurity comes from
ignorance.  My quest to learn by using kismet is a quest so that I will
learn the proper ways to tie down mine and any other 802.11b network
that I come across.   There are 2 types of peple that hack into others
systems.  Those who do it for spite and those who do it to tie the
network down.  I want to tie the network down.  Of course by
experimenting with kismet I can learn the various ways that war drivers
tap into peoples networks.  I have neither the time nor inclination to
drive around town browsing the internet on other peoples wireless
segments.  I do have the time and inclination to secure those insecure
segments for a fee.

My personal opinion on 802.11b is that not all should have access to
it.  Look at it this way.  On my WCP11 card, I found 1 AP on Windward
parkway.  This could have been at Starbucks but I would not know.  It
just popped up in my software.  In an "exclusive" sub-division in
Windward, I found 3. 

Many people focus on business that have Louie and I call "Copenhagen"
Administrators.  That may have a AP that is fully open.  But nobody
focuses on houses that do.  Especially those with fast internet access.

Its one thing to read a book on 802.11b security but it is another thing
to implement the ideas.  I think there is a good market for those that
truly know 802.11b.  That is my motivation for this endeavor.


Back to security.

My conclusion on securing my own house is that some dumb ap's are not
the way to go unless you have a firewall.  Maybe some people can confirm
my ideas.  I have the idea that the only thing I can truly do is to
create a seperate ethernet segment at home.  I have 2 know.  One is for
DSL and the other is for 192.168.1.0.  This new segment would be
192.168.5.0 and have an 568B -> 568A cable attached directly to the DSL
Router or Access Point.  Then I'll use iptables to treat 5.0 as a
untrusted segment.  I then can block by ip and other parameters. This
would still require a security policy at the wireless part but is very
secure.  But you can never truly lock 802.11b down.  Just make it
undesireable


These kind of comments are the same that I see on alt.games.video.xbox
in regards to chipping an Xbox.  Not all xbox chippers wish to do so
because they want to pirate the games.  Maybe 90% do but the other 10%
look for the other values in chipping such as running Linux on the Xbox.

My goal for experiencing kismet is to educate myself in this
technology.  Of course the feds do it to educate others on the weakness
of their networks too.  Are we bad for doing so?  Not in my opinion.




On Tue, 2003-02-11 at 20:28, Joe wrote:
> Jonathan Rickman <jonathan at xcorps.net> writes:
> 
> > On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Christopher Bergeron wrote:
> > 
> > Be advised...
> > 
> > > Using kismet you should be able to find the SSID of it.  Pop that SSID
> > > into your config and try and run dhcpcd or pump.  If you get an
> > > IP/GW/etc you should be on the network.  If you don't, it's probably
> > 
> > Once you move past this point....
> > 
> > > encrypted.  Luckily, kismet can crack WEP in a few minutes (just under
> > > about 1000 packets needed).  Kismet + GPSdrive + WiFi antenna +
> > > pda/dashpc/notebook = lots of fun.
> > >
> > 
> > You're on shaky ground, and in my not so humble opinion, deserve whatever
> > you get. Detecting networks is one thing, perfectly acceptable. Accessing
> > them when they're wide open and inviting you in is a grey area. Blatantly
> > circumventing access controls, however weak and useless, is a
> > crime...period.
> 
> 100% agreed.
> 
> I find it rather astonishing that there seems to be a large community
> of folks who find this kind of thing perfectly acceptable. Many of
> those people are no doubt outraged when they find hackers poking at
> their firewalls - and then they go out and break into someone else's
> wireless network???
> 
> -- Joe Knapka
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


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