[ale] [OT] Interesting Take on MS Programming Tools

Dennany, Jerome {D177~Roswell} JEROME.DENNANY at ROCHE.COM
Wed Nov 27 10:44:03 EST 2002


You are misreading the EULA.

1.  It doesn't tell you that you can't write cross platform code with VS.NET.  You are free to use Mono or Rotor instead of the BCL (Base Class Libraries).  It just says that if you want to distribute to non-MS platforms, you can't use their distributable libraries.  (This is a particularly annoying clause, I'll agree).

2.  It doesn't tell you that you can't write an application that directly competes with Access.  It does say that you can't use their desktop database engine to do so.  Considering that this is a key part of Access itself, I actually think that this is reasonable.  They are basically saying that if you want to write an Access (database) competitor, develop your own darn database engine.

3.  It doesn't say that you can't write GPL software.  It DOES say that you can't 'link' Microsoft libraries and GPL software.  This is actually a GPL restriction - It's the GPL that restricts itself from linking with non-GPL libraries.  Notice that there is no restriction against BSD style licences.

Jerry
---------------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Rose [mailto:jojerose at mindspring.com]
To: ale at ale.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 11:53 AM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: RE: [ale] [OT] Interesting Take on MS Programming Tools


On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 10:13, Dennany, Jerome {D177~Roswell} wrote:
> Besides the company that manufactures VS.NET, could you tell me what you actually dislike about the tool itself?
> 
> Jerry
> 

Well the Eula specifically states that if you use key components of
.Net, specifically libraries and the CRT I believe, you may not port
your program to any non-Windows platform.  Noone is going to program in
VS.Net and not use one of the components.  Thus using VS.Net will lock
your application into the Windows world.  I think you would be insane to
develop a program in VS.Net unless you knew in advance that you would
never want to port it.  

directly from the EULA on disc 1 of VS.Net
"	3.1 Redistributable Code-Standard.

	(a) If you are authorized and choose to redistribute Sample Code,
Redistributable Code, VC Redistributables, or Limited Use
Redistributable Code (collectively, the "Redistributables") as described
in Section 2, you agree: (i) except as otherwise noted in
Section 2.1 (Sample Code), to distribute the Redistributables only in
object code form and in conjunction with and as a part of a software
application product developed by you that adds significant and primary
functionality to the Redistributables ("Licensed Product"); (ii) that
the Redistributables only operate in conjunction with Microsoft Windows
platforms; (iii) not to use Microsoft's name, logo, or trademarks to
market the Licensed Product; (iv) to display your own valid copyright
notice which shall be sufficient to protect Microsoft's copyright in the
Product; (v) not to remove or obscure any copyright, trademark, or
patent notices that appear on the Product as delivered to you; (vi) to
indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Microsoft from and against any
claims or lawsuits, including attorney's fees, that arise or result from
the use or distribution of the Licensed Product; (vii) otherwise comply
with the terms of this EULA; and (viii) agree that Microsoft reserves
all rights not expressly granted. "


	If I remember correctly it prohibits you from using VS.Net to make an
application that directly competes with Access!  What's next Word?
Excel? SQL Server?  Windows Media Player?

again from the EULA
	"(a) "Jet" Files or MSDE. If you redistribute the "Jet Files" (as
identified in the Product ) or MSDE (individually or collectively, the
"MS DB Files"), you agree to comply with the following additional
requirements: (i) your Licensed Product shall not  substantially
duplicate the capabilities of Microsoft Access or, in the reasonable
opinion of Microsoft, compete with same; and (ii) unless your Licensed
Product requires your customers to license Microsoft Access in order to
operate, you shall not reproduce or use any of the MS DB Files for
commercial distribution in conjunction with a general-purpose word
processing, spreadsheet, or database management software product, or an
integrated work or product suite whose components include a
general-purpose word processing, spreadsheet, or database management
software product except for the exclusive use of importing data to the
various formats supported by Microsoft Access. Note: A product that
includes limited word processing, spreadsheet, or database components
along with other components which provide significant and primary value,
such as an accounting product with limited spreadsheet capability, is
not considered to be a "general-purpose" product."

sounds like they are protecting Office to me.

	And of course you may not use GPL, oh excuse me 'Identified Software'.

	"(b) If you use the Redistributables, or the "Sample Code" or
"Redistributable Code" portions of the SDK Software (as described in
Section 4.2(b) (all of the foregoing referred to in this paragraph as
the "Licensed Software"), then in addition to your compliance with the
applicable distribution requirements described for the Licensed
Software, the following also applies. Your license rights to the
Licensed Software are conditioned upon your (i) not incorporating
Identified Software into or combining Identified Software with the
Licensed Software or a derivative work thereof; (ii) not distributing
Identified Software in conjunction with the Licensed Software or a
derivative work thereof; and (iii) not using Identified Software in the
development of a derivative work of the Licensed Software. 
"Identified Software" means software which is licensed pursuant to terms
that directly or indirectly (A) create, or purport to create,
obligations for Microsoft with respect to the Licensed Software or
derivative work thereof or (B) grant, or purport to grant, to any third
party any rights or immunities under Microsoft's intellectual property
or proprietary rights in the Licensed Software or derivative work
thereof. Identified Software includes, without limitation, any software
that requires as a condition of use, modification, and/or distribution
of such software that other software incorporated into, derived from,
or
distributed with such software be (1) disclosed or distributed in source
code form; (2) be licensed for the purpose of making derivative works;
or (3) be redistributable at no charge."

	So you are limited as to what you can develop, what platforms you can
use and the license you use.  So long as competition, Linux and the GPL
aren't important to you, I'd say VS.Net is the perfect choice.

Attached is the entire EULA 
-- 
Jeff Rose

jojerose at mindspring.com

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