[ale] Corporate taxes...

[F. Grant Robertson]

Oh but it does..  the government is only "contributing to GDP" with
_your_ money..  They are only removing your personal discretion as to
how that money is spent.  The legislative and executive branch of our
government does not own our currency, the Federal Reserve Bank does.
Therefore, the legislative branch cannot create or destroy the existance
of money, they can only manipulate it's flow.

A perfect example of this is our current string of interest rate cuts. 
Lowering interest rates is a method employeed to increase the liquidity,
and therefore the availability of capital. Neither the president or
legislators have the power to manipulate the flow of currency in this
way. Yes, the president appoints the chairman of the Fed Reserve with
the approval of the senate, much like judges, but he has no direct
control over the policies they enforce.. much like judges again.  

The government is essentially taking that 33% of GDP from your hands,
and using it to support it's own goals.  If that money were running
freely, you and I would be using it to buy cars or houses or stock or
candy or putting it in the bank as "savings".  You might say "Hey, but
if you put it in the bank, it's not a part of the flow anymore" but,
you'd be mistaken. The bank is meerly holding the promise of that money
for you, and redistributing it in the form of loans to others so that
they in turn can use it for personal or public development (buying cars,
houses, staring business, hiring employees).  

I would advise all of you to read the federalist papers, and a few good
books on the federal reserve and the mechanics of economy.  It's really
qutie facinating stuff, our founding fathers truly were brilliant men
with the best interests of all at heart.  Their clarity of vision was
stunning, even to this day, 227 years on.

-Grant


On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 11:36, Kilroy, Chris wrote:
> 
> ->More money in federal income
> ->directly translates to less free capital in the open economy.
> 
> not necessarily.  the only time i was ever in a business class in my life (1991), the government was  actually contributing roughly 33% of the GDP through employment, grants, etc.  depending on the way in which revenue is shifted and spending adjusted in federal budgets, does not ensure that more net GDP flows into the economy.  for instance if taxes are lowered and as such less federal jobs exist, that doesnt necessarily result in an improvement to the economy.  
> 
> 
> ->
> ->On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 10:42, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> ->> On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 10:01, Brian J. Dowd wrote:
> ->> > Ok...my blood has finally reached the boiling point...
> ->> > 
> ->> > > The only thing you left out was to close the tax loopholes
> ->> > 
> ->> > Since all tax "loopholes" are congressional laws 
> ->initiated by the House 
> ->> > and passed by both
> ->> > the House and the Senate. And since both houses have been 
> ->almost totally 
> ->> > under the control of Demorats for the past 48 
> ->years...What, exactly, is 
> ->> > your thesis?
> ->> The process of paying taxes requires money. It has always 
> ->seemed to me
> ->> that since corporations are an artificial entity whose existence is
> ->> solely for the accumulation of money, they should be 
> ->required to chip in
> ->> as I am required to chip in. I have always viewed taxes as 
> ->the means for
> ->> funding the processes we, as a collective people, want to see done.
> ->> 
> ->> I place the blame on the current loopholes that allowed GE to earn
> ->> billions and pay $0 tax squarely on the greed of the people 
> ->that make
> ->> the rules and the greed of the people that asked for the rules to be
> ->> made.
> ->> 
> ->> > 
> ->> > > that allow
> ->> > > corporation to earn billions and pay no taxes. GE, 
> ->Enron, and several
> ->> > > others have managed to avoid paying taxes on the 
> ->billions they earned in
> ->> > > profits
> ->> > 
> ->> > Corporations are figments of lawyers' imaginations and 
> ->corporate taxes 
> ->> > are figments of liberals' dreams. Corporations are 
> ->totally owned by 
> ->> > shareholders, ie: *people*, who then wind up paying the 
> ->taxes on any 
> ->> > imputed profits. Any tax actually paid by corporations 
> ->merely serves to 
> ->> > raise the production costs of its goods so that all  its 
> ->customers wind 
> ->> > up paying this hidden tax when they buy its products.
> ->> > 
> ->> > If you really want to learn about (not just argue about) the 
> ->> > ramifications of "corporate taxes" please give 
> ->http://www.fairtax.org a 
> ->> > few minutes of your time after you calm down.
> ->> 
> ->> I have read much from that site before. And I still believe very
> ->> strongly that an entity whose only reason for existence is 
> ->the financial
> ->> conquest of a market should be part of the funding process 
> ->for the goods
> ->> and services that the government attempts to provide to the entire
> ->> population. As I see it, much of the current system of rules and
> ->> policies and processes exist to benefit that direct class 
> ->of artificial
> ->> people. So, since they do have pockets lined with gold, why 
> ->should they
> ->> not financially support the system that allows them to thrive here
> ->> better than anywhere else in the world. 
> ->> 
> ->> > 
> ->> > > while our schools were cramming 35 kids into a trailer called a
> ->> > > classroom in front of a single teacher who is supposed 
> ->to train these
> ->> > > kids to become good employees of these companies.
> ->> > >
> ->> > I'd seriously like to see your references to studies 
> ->which correlate 
> ->> > class size or classroom construction methods to SAT 
> ->scores or some other 
> ->> > measure of students' depth of knowledge. I will read your 
> ->info after I 
> ->> > calm down. ;-)
> ->> 
> ->> I teach, for one source of data. The direct evidence is 
> ->getting harder
> ->> to come by as a layman. But some plugging on the web shows that the
> ->> schools with smaller class sizes will, on average, have better
> ->> performing students than schools with larger class sizes. 
> ->> 
> ->> It really is all about investment. Some areas of the 
> ->country are willing
> ->> to invest more into their schools than others. The 
> ->immediate payback is
> ->> bragging rights based on test scores. The long term payback 
> ->is a better
> ->> educated population with higher lifetime earning potential 
> ->to fill the
> ->> coffers of government with their tax money.
> ->> 
> ->> The reference to trailers is not a slap on building style. It is an
> ->> attack on the poor planning and budgetary woes of many 
> ->school systems. 
> ->> 
> ->> It is well known in the education profession that the 
> ->closer a class can
> ->> get to the one-on-one mentor/student scenario found in 
> ->graduate school,
> ->> the higher the learning rate becomes. As society moves towards using
> ->> more technology, the total amount of knowledge needed by an 
> ->individual
> ->> to be an active participant in this society is increasing. 
> ->> 
> ->> So we have class sizes mandated by non-teachers in Georgia to be 32
> ->> students to one teacher maximum. This number has been 
> ->chosen as the best
> ->> trade-off between teaching paradigms and budgetary concerns. 
> ->> 
> ->> I am still looking for a full-time job. But not in Georgia. 
> ->Or anywhere
> ->> in the south, for that matter. 
> ->> 
> ->> -- 
> ->> James P. Kinney III   \Changing the mobile computing world/
> ->> President and CEO      \          one Linux user         /
> ->> Local Net Solutions,LLC \           at a time.          /
> ->> 770-493-8244             \.___________________________./
> ->> 
> ->> GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
> ->> <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
> ->> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 
> ->> 
> ->> 
> ->
> ->
> ->
> ->
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