[ale] [Fwd: Re: [ale] chance to talk with Johnny Isakson('sstaff)]

[cfowler]

On Mon, 2002-11-11 at 17:19, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> 
> Whoops, forgot to reply all...
> ----
> 

> From: Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at attbi.com>
> To: Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey at proteus-tech.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] chance to talk with Johnny Isakson('s staff)
> Date: 11 Nov 2002 16:51:05 -0500
> 
> Benjamin -
> 
> I can't imagine how you could have possibly arrived at this conclusion. 
> Your "indentured servitude" issue is valid but as an IT worker (still
> unemployed, BTW) who was himself displaced by H-1Bs in a company that
> specialized in farming H=1Bs out to work in US companies, I take strong
> issue with your "bunk" statement.  Companies such as that one are
> certifying to the Government with each visa application that they cannot
> obtain Americans who can code up Web sites in Win2K/IIS/ASP/SQL Server. 
> Oh, really??  Har, har, tell me another one!!

Yes this is something I'm curious about.  We have a java position open
and I've interviewed many people.  Out of all those people maybe 80%
were not American.  This I'm not sure of because I never really asked. 
I believe that many were Indian, Milddle Eastern, And finally American. 
Those were the 3 groups that I interviewd.  

The amazing thing I saw was that of all the companies that provided me
resources, these individuals were of Asian descent.  I've come to the
conclusion that maybe Asians have a better understanding of the Java
language because I met some very talented individuals.  I wish I could
use each and every one of the individuals I interviewed.  All seem to
have a good grasp of the concepts I needed implemented in Java.  

One group asked me to outsource to India. This is against what I want. 
I feel that all jobs should stay in the country.

I sent job descriptions to Ajug and Ale.  Of Course I got many hits from
Ajug but not many from Ale.  I would reccomend diversification.  I
totally agree with it. At one time I was a Aix and SCO administrator and
I knew that to try and guarantee future work I had to branch out and do
much more.







> 
> What is happening is that companies are parenthetically inserting "...at
> sub-market rates" with a wink and a nod when they make those
> certifications, and the INS is letting them get away with it.  Add that
> to the "chattel factor" of having so many vo-tech grads on the street
> looking to do exactly the same thing, and you've got depressed wages. 
> Might as well work in a factory - if you can find one.  
> 
> If someone decided that all of Metro Atlanta's H-1Bs were to pack up and
> go, Americans could easily fill those jobs, but I doubt that many would
> want to at the same pay rate.  But, then again, if enough people figure
> that that is better than nothing, then it only reinforces IT jobs as
> being deserving of low pay.  
> 
> Personally, I have no expectation at all that I can get hired at
> anywhere near the same amount of money I was making, at least not in the
> private sector, and it's not as though I worked in some starry-eyed
> dot-com or telecom outfit.
> 
> But anyway, back to the point, there are IT companies in town whose
> business plan is based on their ability to provide software development
> at sub-market costs by using H-1Bs.  If this keeps up, the day will come
> when you *can't* get software written for hire by Americans anymore
> because American programmers will have left the field for other,
> better-paying jobs that afford more autonomy and fewer PHBs.  
> 
> - Jeff
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2002-11-11 at 10:59, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> > 11/11/2002 12:39:52 AM, Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at attbi.com> wrote:
> > >Show him or his lackey this: 
> > >http://www.vote-smart.org/vote-smart/profile.phtml?ID=BGA10376&dtype=I&state=GA&style=
> > >This site says that he has repeatedly refused to respond to the National
> > >Political Awareness Test.  Press him on immigration question D: 
> > >"Increase the immigration quota for computer scientists and other
> > >information technology workers."  Look at http://www.h1b.info/ first. 
> > >Tell him that American IT workers are being displaced by H-1Bs right
> > >here in Atlanta and suggest that the companies that are doing it need to
> > >be investigated with respect to compliance with the law.  Further, ask
> > >for a position on HR 3222 (see
> > >http://www.optimizemag.com/issue/004/pr_squareoff_no.fhtml).  
> > 
> > Sorry but this is just bunk. H1B workers haven't taken a single net job away from American workers.  
> > Of course there are serious problems with the system which ammounts to a form of indentured 
> > servitude for the H1B visa holder - and we should simply allow people from outside the US to come 
> > into the US and be employed (or start businesses and employ others) at will. You'd immediately see 
> > the "problem" H1 holders quit their underpaid positions (more often than not exploi... er employed by 
> > fellow forign natitionals who know how to work the system) since they have freedom of movement 
> > and don't have to worry about getting kicked out of the country at their employer's will.
> > 
> > 	Ben Scherrey
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---
> > This message has been sent through the ALE general discussion list.
> > See http://www.ale.org/mailing-lists.shtml for more info. Problems should be 
> > sent to listmaster at ale dot org.
> > 
> 
> 
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