[ale] AOL sues Microsoft

[Jeff Rose]

That's what is so frustrating about MS.  They have taken a cruddy
product and over time manipulated their way into it being the standard. 
Now everything has to be compatible with their products.  That gives
them the power to control everything.  The general public just doesn't
care if MS is a monopoly and a poor sport.  They just want computing to
be thoughtless, which windows is.  And the bad part is that the
government will do nothing about it.  I wonder if the US government is
willing to look the other way on this because MS is an American
company.  Technology is power and those who control it will control the
world... Just a thought.

On Thu, 2002-01-24 at 13:07, Matt Shade wrote:
> Nah, I didn't find it harsh.  But I dont' see myself so much as taking the
> "easy way out" as much as the practical way.
> 
> At HP, we used to run EVERYTHING off MPE and HP-UX. No Windows apps at all.
> That was great, and just about every tool we used was written in-house.
> About 3 or 4 years ago, someone high up decided that Microsoft was the way
> to go, and over the course of say a year, moved everyone off our UX
> workstations onto intel based boxes running NT. We still had plenty of unix
> apps, so we ran Reflection/X, but even those unix apps have been phased out
> over time. Now, nearly everything we use is built for Windows. I was one of
> the loudest voicest against this type of move, but unfortunately, I'm really
> just a peon and upper management does really listen to those of us who
> actually use the tools.
> 
> The internal applications written for us to use are all written for Windows.
> I, however, write a lot of little tools for my teams to use, and those are
> all written for Linux or UX. It'll never be enough to turn the tide around,
> but at least I feel like I'm doing my part.
> 
> I also actually do like Windows, though. I can be so much more productive
> running NT than trying to workaround using something else. It'd be really
> slick to run VMWare, but that not terribly practical, and I just don't have
> the money for it. Even if I did, I doubt I'd be able to use it effectively.
> If there was a way I could run ALL my tools and apps on a Linux box, you
> have to believe that I'd jump on it. If there was a way I could run them on
> an HP3000, I'd kill for that! As it stands now, though, I have to use the
> best tools for the job. That's why I have on my desk at work an NT, an
> HP9000, an HP3000, and two linux machines. And at home, I have all my linux
> and hpux machines networked and displaying on my Win2k monitor.
> 
> Call it the easy way out if you like, or even cowardice (where did that come
> from?), but sometimes you even have to use things you would prefer not to
> use just to get the job done.
> 
> And oh yeah....it burns me up that Microsoft IS the top dog and that the
> whole world has succumbed to the Windows onslaught. I sometimes wonder how
> much further we would be if Amiga had been smarter in the 80's, and they
> were the ones who caught on and were on every desktop. Amiga had a cheaper
> machine and an OS that could run rings around something like Win95, and this
> was back in the 80's!
> 
> matt
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoffrey" <esoteric at 3times25.net>
> To: "ALE" <ale at ale.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 08:33
> Subject: Re: [ale] AOL sues Microsoft
> 
> 
> > This is going to sound harsh, so be it....
> >
> > Matt Shade wrote:
> >
> > > Well...I could be called a Microsoft "apologist"....I use, and will
> continue
> > > to use, Microsoft products because they do for me what I need to do. I
> can't
> > > beat their Word for creating docs that are shareable with customers. I
> can't
> > > beat their PowerPoint for presentations I need to make. If I need a new
> > > scheduling program, then something made for windows is going to beat out
> > > anything I've seen for linux.
> > > It's not that I don't want linux to be the top dog, but for right now,
> it's
> > > not.
> >
> >
> > And won't be as long as people have that kind of attitude.  Sometimes
> > you just have to do what's right, although it might be painful You're
> > not doing what's right.
> >
> > You're not the only one who could take the 'easy way out' and just use
> > M$ products.  My company has been  moving that direction for a few years
> > now.  I've been fighting it all the way.  I even changed
> > assignments/organizations in order to better position myself to make a
> > difference, be heard on this issue at the corporate level, and most of
> > all, enable myself to continue to work on a non-Microsoft platform.
> >
> > Yeah, there's been a lot of pain.  A lot of time I've spent trying to
> > figure out how to make it work, when I could have just fallen back to
> > the pre-install Windows that once had graced my corporate laptop.
> >
> > Have I made a difference?  I don't know, but there is now a Linux vpn
> > client for our corporate vpn and I'm running my vpn through a little box
> > that is provided by the corporation and is a firewall/router that's
> > running Linux.  I never thought I'd see the day, truly.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, I still have to fire up vmware/windows to view some
> > word docs, because they aren't properly formatted by anything I've found
> > on Linux.  But, I'm not going to just give in.  I am so much more
> > productive now that I've got a real operating system to work with.  So
> > the initial pain was worth it.
> >
> > If you want to make a difference you've got to do something and not just
> > follow the crowd.  Following the crowd, that's cowardice.  Some folks
> > don't have a choice, so be it.  But, if/when you do, you've got to do
> > the right thing.
> >
> > > So I suppose I'm one of those that are keeping Microsoft on top and
> > > linux trying to catch up. But I'm not the only one. One of the reasons
> why I
> > > am on the MS side is the people who are writing software for Windows.
> >
> >
> > And why would that put you on M$'s side?
> >
> > > I
> > > don't know what the numbers are for Win programmers as opposed to linux
> > > programmers, but I'd be willing to bet it's better than 4 to 1. Maybe
> even
> > > 10 to 1. I don't know.
> > > I'm not out to bash Linux. Hell, I've been a linux
> user/programmer/advocate
> > > for more than 8 years. I'm also not out to bash Microsoft.
> >
> >
> > I don't think I would call myself an advocate.
> >
> > I will say this, there are very few people like yourself who have some
> > knowledge of Linux and Windows, and continue to have a preference for
> > windows.  Most Microsoft advocates know nothing but Microsoft, so
> > they're making comments/decisions without knowing the full picture.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > <flame suit>  # because most readers are anti-MS and pro-[anything
> anti-MS]
> >
> >
> > Understand though, this is not a prejudice.  the anti-MS folks on this
> > list are well educated people who have made conscious decisions based on
> > their research, knowledge and backgrounds.  Unlike the majority of
> > Microsoft supporters, who have not made the effort to see what else is
> > truly available.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Until later: Geoffrey esoteric at 3times25.net
> >
> > "...the system (Microsoft passport) carries significant risks to users
> that
> > are not made adequately clear in the technical documentation available."
> > - David P. Kormann and Aviel D. Rubin, AT&T Labs - Research
> > - http://www.avirubin.com/passport.html
> >
> >
> > ---
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> be
> > sent to listmaster at ale dot org.
> >
> 
> 
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