Fwd: Re: [ale] Re: your mail

[Dave Brooks]

Pardon the sparadicness of my reply, I've made some comments below:


On Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 10:38:59AM -0400, Pete Hardie wrote:
>Greulich, Thomas G wrote:
>> 
>>         snip
>> > (The following is a general statement) It seems like to ask Linux newbies
>> > nowadays
>> > to read a little bit before hand is almost a crime.  Perhaps its because
>> > most of
>> > them are migrating from more "user-friendly" environments like that other
>> > operating system that starts with a W, and take offense to the fact that
>> > they
>> > might have to do a little research in order to use their computer.
>> > (Several
>> > times to the isp-linux list have I been snapped at by a newbie because I
>> > told
>> > him he might have to read some documentation =)Man, Linux nowadays is a
>> > walk
>> > in the park compared to that cryptic version of Slackware I was installing
>> > way
>> > back then -- there was nothing user-friendly about that, I assure you.  It
>> > almost hurt =]
>> >
>>         Yeah, and we walked uphill both ways.....  ;-)
>
>Barefoot in the snow, too.

For miles, no less!

>
>>         I feel I have to speak up at this point.  Several of the responses
>> to this thread have basically been saying that the only way to 'properly'
>> install and use Linux is to go through the steep learning curve that most of
>> the folks on this list have gone through.  That's fine for those who want to
>> be on the leading edge.  But if we truly want to make LInux more universal
>> and to steal market share from M$, we are going to have to come to grips
>> with the fact that we need to attract users who see the computer as a tool,
>> and nothing more.  People who want nothing more than to install the OS,
>> their productivity apps, and get to work.  People who would migrate to Linux
>> because of cost, stability, etc.   They don't care how or why it works, just
>> that it does.  Until we can tap this group, Linux will stay in the realm of
>> the hobbyist.  If we don't tap this group fairly soon, people will start to
>> remember LInux as this fad that passed.  Linux currently has the attention
>> of the press and the mainstream users.  If we don't do something to ease the
>> entry for the mainstream users, we will have lost our opportunity.
>
>While I agree with this to a large extent, I do think that it is a bad trend
>to have people installing something as significant asthe OS without thinking, 
>especially as the Internet connectivity increases.  Think of all the ISPs who 
>have badly configured mailers and firewalls, allowing spammers to bounce their
>spew off of many machines, etc.
>

Indeed.  I could think of several examples off the top of my head.

>For the general user, Linux should be like Windoze - it comes installed from
>the vendor.  What percentage of end users install Win95/98/NT?  A small one,
>for sure, and smaller still who do so without assistance from tech support or
>a technical friend.
>

Well, even with it coming installed from the vendor (which is a great idea, BTW),
there's still going to be the instance where the user needs to troubleshoot or
fix something with their machine that the graphical and pretty easy-to-use
tools wont be able to.  Anybody ever had to manually add modelines to an XF86Config
file?  Now, first being encountered by a newbie, and XF86Config file would make
about as much sense as quantum mechanics to a 4 year old (still baffles me, some-
times...).  That's just one example, there are many more.  Think about kernel
compilation, thats one thing that even if you do have a handy tool (*ahem* xconfig
*ahem*), forgetting to include something rudimentary (for example, ext2fs) 
out of ignorance on the subject can have very unwanted results.   

>That said, the people who are migrating from Windoze do need to make a paradigm
>shift - freedom begets responsibility - you are free from monopolistic control,
>which means you are responsible for learning more about your machine and how
>it really works.
>

I couldn't agree more, here.  I think that if someone chooses to install an
[not so] "alternative" OS (such as Linux), they should realize that they arent
guaranteed a point-and-click, graphical, user-friendly, bells-and-whistly 
interface all the time.  If they want such things, it may take some work to get
things to function properly.  I've seen more threads go by on some other lists/
newsgroups with newbies either a) complaining or b) openly criticizing the Linux
(or any free unix) community for not providing a "dumb" enough solution to their
problems.

I do not in any way believe that an "RTFM" is the acceptable response to some
(if not most) problems.  Chances are if you get stepped through working through
a problem, you'll remember how to do it next time rather than if you type "man tar"
and try and figure that out.  (Anyone ever read the entire tar manpage?)  Although,
yes, there are some instances where reading the manual page is a helpful thing
to do (as with any other documentation).

Just thought I'd rant again.

-Dave
dbrooks at elysium

-- 
david a. brooks
dbrooks at comstar.net
systems engineer
comstar.net, inc.
voice: .. 770/485-6029
pager: .. 770/213-6133

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
david a. brooks
dbrooks at comstar.net
systems engineer
comstar.net, inc.
voice: .. 770/485-6029
pager: .. 770/213-6133